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{ personal log }

the reality of my surroundings

I love her even when she's wrong.

{ 1:41pm }



» I wish you strength, Derek. I could *never* love a woman who was so wrong about such a fundamental thing.

You're a better man than me.

Anil  { 7.24.01 @ 4:03pm }

» hmmm.... ach.. I beg to differ...

Heather's way allows you to easily see how much is left...

....ever been stuck ...when nobody is home?

....errr.. on second thought.. that maybe the best way to be stuck.

– Kevin-John  { 7.24.01 @ 6:22pm }

» *lol!*

mm... i prefer over the top. does that make me a horrible person? :O

hehe, i thought that this was incredibly cute. it's one of those arguments where, if you are a close friend and get the, hmm, *pleasure* of listening to both parties, you just have to smile and think of how cute it is. well, that's what i do :)

amy  { 7.24.01 @ 7:54pm }

» I'm lucky if the toilet paper even gets onto the little rolly insert thing.

What is that called?

Paper caddy?

cior  { 7.24.01 @ 9:09pm }

» If there is any place where function must trump form at all costs, it is the water closet.

And you're still with this broad?

Young Luke  { 7.24.01 @ 10:39pm }

» What's really creepy is that I was asked that exact question on my site in 97 (which is so long ago!). So I did some research, and put the results on my old, old site. Oh and forgive the dodgy 1997-era design (I was in high school - come on!).

And for the record, my vote's for front.

Simon Wright  { 7.24.01 @ 11:32pm }

» Funny, I just commented on this in my blog. I'm just glad to see that I was right about ONE of you...

So I have to assume that there's a great deal of passive-agressive behavior being exhibited in the loo at your house?

Jay Allen  { 7.24.01 @ 11:45pm }

» Don't have one. Mine are on what in Dutch is oh so amusingly called a 'plee boy' (pronounce: play boy) which in English... makes no sense at all.

caroline  { 7.25.01 @ 4:07am }

» I knew I had found the woman who would be my wife when she stated she was an over the top kind of person. One of her sisters however, who was a house guest, is a believer in that "other method" and would switch the roll around when ever possible. Completely annoying.

vanderwal  { 7.25.01 @ 5:16am }

» I certainly hope there will be an election of some sort before she is crowned queen. I need to get registered. We can't allow this kind of backward thinking to rule our great country. What's next?!? Biting straight through Oreos without eating the cream first?!? It's crazy!

Scott  { 7.25.01 @ 6:31am }

» Actually both methods are incorrect. The proper place for toilet paper is on the floor next to the bowl, or sitting on the bowl "shelf"

steve  { 7.25.01 @ 6:55am }

» Yes she is sooo very very wrong! Please get her some professional help A.S.A.P. There should be a T.P. etiquette hotline somewhere so we could call and settle this dispute.

Leslie  { 7.25.01 @ 10:16am }

»'s my fault! I trained him to put the paper over the roller! See, we used to get pretty, floral decorated toilet paper and the only way to appreciate the aesthetics was to have the paper over the top...otherwise the design was like looking at the inside of a fabric. Get it? Anyway, once again, it's Mom's doing! But, I do prefer the over the top method... I wouldn't want to take sides, though... :-)

– Momma  { 7.25.01 @ 10:29am }

» There are few things worse than pulling on the t.p. and half of the roll spilling out on the floor.

I see only one solution here: 2 t.p. dispensers one above the other, starting with the inner on bottom first and then alternating each week.

christopher  { 7.25.01 @ 10:52am }

» Now at least in my house it all comes down to being a cat lover or a dog lover. Over the top allows for a much better cat toy.

I like the clean floor towards the back style myself.

– Jon & Chuck  { 7.25.01 @ 11:09am }

» Have you noticed that in hotels it's always over the top?

I say derek and every hotel in the US is wrong. If it's under you can rip the tp with one hand. Can't do that with the over method or you'll end up with the tp all over the floor.

– lastus  { 7.25.01 @ 12:15pm }

» i must say the first thing that lept to my mind was how her way allowed you to see if you were about to run out more clearly, too. as for the aesthetics, i can see how a patterned toilet paper might be better appreciated if placed the 'incorrect' way. my personal preference is that the person takes the time to put the paper on the round thingie (don't know the name either) as long as it's not by the sink or on the floor, i'm a happie camper.

as for Heather being queen, that might be quite interesting....

karen  { 7.25.01 @ 12:45pm }

» Nothing against Ms. Champ personally (hi!), but I for one prefer my toilet paper over the top. Why? When I', sitting on the throne, I'm not terribly concerned about aesthetics. In fact, I like to be able to grab the roll without looking, and the over-the-top method makes this much easier.

(Probably more than you wanted to know, eh?)

Would this make or break my relationship with a woman? Doubt it. But I'd probably install two dispensers in the bathroom, just in case...

Mike  { 7.25.01 @ 2:28pm }

» The truth. That's all I'm going to say on the matter. Though, I am taking notes.

heather  { 7.25.01 @ 3:30pm }

» Over the top is the only way. Anyway, I'm already queen, the job is not open and I have no plans to expire.

– michele  { 7.25.01 @ 6:51pm }

» An argument for the apparent underdog

Just because I'm partial to the underdog (even when they are wrong) I am going to make a few points on Q. Heather's behalf.

Heather seems to be making the case that her desire for form is more important than Derek's desire for function and Derek just the opposite. This is also the argument made by many of the above.

Personally I think the form argument is so abstract and matter of preference that it should be left out of the discussion entirely. On the other hand what Heather has yet to mentioned are the usability features that support her case.

(Devils Advocate)

Economics & Environment -

It has been shown in many lab tests and field research projects that 'tongue inward rolling' reduces paper consumption. This is because the tension caused by pulling out & up ensures the paper is ripped sooner. Like Mom said, "Take what you can eat. You can always come back for seconds."

If your usability goal is greater ease of consumption (like most good Americans) roll your paper 'tongue out'. But if you are concerned with preserving our environment or pinching a few pennies each month roll it 'tongue in' and you can contribute to the greater human good.

The sex debate -

Research also shows that a vast majority of 'tongue in' rollers are women. Antidotal evidence would indicate that the reason for this has to do with the way men and women use the facilities. Men are much more likely to stand when relieving themselves. Women always sit. When you consider the position from which they are approaching the paper spool you can see that usability becomes an issue of perspective.

The physics of paper rolling -

Now, this antidote is easily refuted by men who insist that the times they use the most paper is directly proceeded by sitting. This could be true but consider this argument made to Ann Landers by a physics professor from the 'tongue in' camp:

"To get (the paper) to turn requires a certain torque, which comes from the tension in the paper being withdrawn. The greater the distance between the plane of the paper being pulled and the axle support line, the less force is required and the less chance of tearing the paper before you have enough,"

(/Devils Advocate)

Anyhow, some things to consider when rolling your papers.

shmuel  { 7.25.01 @ 7:36pm }

» I'm with Heather, all the way!!!

Placing the roll in the "under" position allows one to stabilize the roll (to avoid any unintended de-spooling) and tear the desired amount of paper, all with one hand. Try that with the roll placed in the "over" position!

Oh, and it is more aesthetically pleasing, too.

Phil Essing  { 7.25.01 @ 7:55pm }

» Anecdote.

I hate it when I don't pay attention when spell checking.

Shmuel  { 7.25.01 @ 7:59pm }

» Heather, that's rich. A solution which satisfies no one... :-)

Jay  { 7.25.01 @ 10:15pm }

» I don't know if it was Mom's doing or not.... but I have to agree with my brother (sorry, Heather). I always like the toilet paper hanging over the top. In fact, if I go into a bathroom and it is hanging the "Heather way", I always change it! *hee hee hee*

Jenn  { 7.25.01 @ 11:26pm }

» Clearly Heather has lost what tenuous grasp on reality she may once have had. As I wrote elsewhere, it is quite obvious to most that the "paper elephant" method is clearly superior to the "snail going south" method of installing a roll of toilet paper.


Michael  { 7.26.01 @ 2:06am }

» The comment from "Momma" on 7.25.01 @ 10:29am correctly points out that the manufacturer's assumption is the over-the-top method - otherwise they would not print floral designs on the outer surface of the roll.

We can conclude that purchasers of floral-design toilet paper should use the over-the-top method or else buy inexpensive solid-color rolls.

However, I am puzzled by Phil Essing's comment, to the effect that one can't "stabilize the roll" for precise tearing if the roll is positioned for over-the-top spooling. Why not? Use one hand to hold the roll in place and the other to pull sharply on the paper. I don't see the problem.

– Tom Storer  { 7.26.01 @ 4:46am }

» Tom Storer wrote:

>Use one hand to hold the roll in place
>and the other to pull sharply on the
>paper. I don't see the problem.

That's the point! In the "under" position, you can do both with the use of only one hand. You see? It's more practical. (tongue firmly planted in cheek)

Phil Essing  { 7.26.01 @ 5:04am }

» go heather!

– ling  { 7.26.01 @ 5:09am }

» under. because the other way means you're more likely to deal with the previous user's pawprints. ugh. it's just wrong.

– nick  { 7.26.01 @ 6:22am }

» ladies and gentlemen,

the "official" harrumph! toilet paper aesthetics poll over at alt.sense.

choose wisely grasshopper!

heather  { 7.26.01 @ 7:16am }

» It has nothing to do with aesthetics! It's a usability issue and the resource is simply more accesible to ALL individuals if it is OVER the roll. This is MY opinion. My husband, on the other hand insists it be under the roll to prevent the cat from playing with it. She can't live forever...

– TexaninTurmoil  { 7.26.01 @ 8:24am }

» Christopher came close on this one, but let me take it a step further: toilet paper mounts are cheap and easy to install, so may I humbly suggest "his" and "hers" tp dispensers. You can get as creative with this as you like, each of you going on a quest to find the perfect dispenser for you, then loading the tp any way you please.

Your guests will find it amusing, plus it could serve as another type of informal "poll"--whichever dispenser runs out first will be the obvious favorite. godspeed.

ari  { 7.26.01 @ 8:30am }

» To complicate matters further:

Where I live, toilet paper dispensers frequently come equipped with a "lid" which, powered by two springs, presses down on the roll from above. This makes it very easy to tear off the desired amount of paper, but only if you use the over-the-top method. I just tried to do it the other way around and found that you need the "lift" generated by pulling the paper in order for the roll to rotate smoothly. Otherwise it just gets stuck.

You'd better not move to Sweden, Heather..

– Joakim  { 7.26.01 @ 12:33pm }

» i thought i would be able to install my own TP dispenser. i used tools and everything. sadly, i had placed the side roller holders too close together, preventing the roll from turning at all; over or under. now i have 4 large holes in the wall and a small galvanized steel bucket TP receptacle fro the counter but the question remains: right or left?

jocelyn  { 7.26.01 @ 12:34pm }

» I have to agree with heather on this, but not for an asthetic reason. You see, I have two cats who love to stretch on the toilet paper, stretching leads to rolling and roling and rolling. Eventually ending up with a pile of toielt paper on the bathroom floor. Heather's toliet paper position avoids this. the cat's can the roll the toilet paper to their hearts content and not a sheet hits the floor. Now I don't come home to a bathroom floor full of toilet paper.

Jim  { 7.26.01 @ 12:45pm }

» I've heard it said that if one has a cat, and mounts the roll "tongue outward", the cat might get fascinated and unroll the entire thing, but it it's tongue inward, that won't happen. We have a cat and that hasn't happen even though, like most cultured, sane people, we mount the paper roll tongue outward.

– Chuck  { 7.26.01 @ 2:22pm }

» I don't normally get involved with weighty issues like this. While personally I am an "over" kinda guy I thought it best to check with a manufacturer to get their specifications. Kinda looks like its an "under" thing if one takes their illustrations into account.

rks  { 7.26.01 @ 2:56pm }

» Sorry, but Heather is right, for 2 reasons:

1. Canadians are always right about beer and toilet paper.

2. If you have cats, doing it Heather's way prevents them from dragging the toilet paper all over the house.

Kristin  { 7.26.01 @ 2:57pm }

» From the Charmin web site:

"Many household skirmishes are waged over this, but there isn't a right or wrong way to roll the Charmin. Sometimes it's placed so the edge rolls over the top toward the front. You can also hang Charmin with the leading end falling under the roll."

I'm going to assume that most other toilet paper companies would feel the same way (though I'd be interested to find out if I'm wrong).

Anyhow, the battle rages on...

Mike  { 7.26.01 @ 6:02pm }

» This is no longer about toilet paper, my friends. The realisation that Sushi, our cat, has become victim of her collective unconscious forces me to sell my car and install a bidet with disposable cotton napkins neatly folded on top. Sushi will be taught unique passtimes and once perfected, we'll travel the world to make sure that all copycats are inspired to embrace their individuality.

Francois  { 7.26.01 @ 11:10pm }

» With no mitigating factors like pets or unusual dispensers in our place to push us one way or another, my housemate and I merely differ in philosophy on the matter for the usual reasons. Our solution is to just grab a roll and not think about which way the "leader" is facing when it's installed. Assuming the probability is equal (and one side isn't weighted or something,) we each get our way half the time. Imperfect, sure, but it seems more fair, anyway.

Casey  { 7.27.01 @ 11:33am }

» [laughing] Ah the joys of sharing. Now, I'm not aking sides, since as long as there is paper, I'm a happy camper. However, in arguements such as these, I've found it far easier to cede the point to the woman than to wage a war over somehing not quite as beefy as this. On the other hand, who's throne is it? Maybe you each need your own dispenser, but then you get into the issue of sharing when one runs out. And that could be far worse.

This is a thesis in its own right.

roboboshi (John Athayde)  { 7.27.01 @ 1:55pm }

» "If you have cats, doing it Heather's way prevents them from dragging the toilet paper all over the house."

That depends on the IQ of the cat in question! I had a cat once who could drag the paper everywhere no matter which way it was mounted on the holder...

Personally, I prefer wet wipes. But that's a whole 'nother can of worms.

charles  { 7.28.01 @ 10:17am }

» When I succeed Heather to the throne, I shall decree that each person shall have their very own bathroom and not ever be made to share, so that they may hang their toilet paper in a manner that is found to be both pleasing and utilitarian.

Until then, my dear subjects-to-be, let it be known that love is the solution to this dispute. For it is not the manner of love to be choosy about the hanging of the paper, the squeezing of the tube, the position of the seat or the stealing of the blankets.

Love allows us all to live in happiness.

– liz  { 7.30.01 @ 10:36am }


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