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We can only hope that this article is wrong, and Apple will whip up a browser of its own. I've been running in OSX for a few days now, and the one app that crashes consistently? Microsoft Internet Explorer. More than two windows open and bam - crash city. This is on an out of the box G4 that came with Explorer pre-installed. Sheesh.

The other app that keeps crashing is Microsoft Entourage, which is why I'm still using my trusty G3 for email (with Eudora 3, no less). Viva 1996!


Any OSX heads out there with suggestions or comments on browsers or email clients?

{ 11:45am }



» d,

well, i was using apple's mail app for a while and it was good, but didn't have enough candy for me so i moved to entourage. i use it all the time now and i get no crashes - tho my system really lags out when photoshop7 and ent're open at the same time.. odd.

now, entourage doesn't seem to be able to get a hold of hotmail mail much or well tho. kinda nutty.


mat  { 5.28.02 @ 11:54am }

» I'd uhm. Reinstall ie. I think there was a pretty major upgrade made after the osx release. That might do it. Mine never crashes...

Did you download allllll the system upgrades like I told you to, young man?

benbrown  { 5.28.02 @ 11:55am }

» Yup! IE 5.1.4 - the latest and greatest for OSX. I'm thinking maybe there's a conflict with something else. Dunno.

Derek  { 5.28.02 @ 12:22pm }

» Odd, I've had few problems with IE5/X. Your options are...

iCab and Omnipage: great if you liked Netscape

Opera and Mozilla: feh

Chimera: Mozilla minus the kluge. Pretty much everyone seems to think this will be the king... if they can get a "finished" version out the door.

Cowboy X  { 5.28.02 @ 12:29pm }

» ...or, perhaps, stick with IE, increase it's memory allocation and make sure that you have the latest OS etc. etc. versions installed. I guess you're used to Macs by now and to suggest the obvious, but just because the machine is new to you doesn't mean that it's running the latest version. When I bought my iBook, it needed three or four upgrades before it was running the current version of everything. I'm running OS-X 10.1.4 and IE 5.1.4, with no problems.

Software Update to the rescue?

Mark Howells  { 5.28.02 @ 1:50pm }

» Entourage v.X has never once crashed on me. There have been a couple minor updates for it. Have you tried installing them? Also, I don't know if it's still true, but I remember reading a while ago that mail apps don't like it when there are a lot of messages in the Inbox because the Inbox is loaded into RAM, whereas other folders aren't. Moving some messages might be worth a shot. You could also try rebuilding the Entourage database. Hold down option while you launch the app.

As for IE, it's a pain in the ass, for sure, but I'm still using it as my primary browser, after a few months of Mozilla (which I dropped because Flash performance was terrible and the WMP plugin doesn't work in it, and until RealPlayer is out next year, it's what we're stuck with until more sites support QuickTime). The recent betas of OmniWeb and Chimera are promising, but are still missing quite a bit for me to use them full time (last I checked OmniWeb couldn't do iframes).

There is an IE update in the works. I think I heard summer for its release.

frank  { 5.28.02 @ 1:52pm }

» Thanks for all the info, everyone! I guess I shoulda mentioned: Yeah, I have all the latest of everything. 10.1.4, 5.1, etc. Still, the five years of messages I imported into my Entourage inbox may have something to do with the program's flakiness. Thanks for the tip, Frank!

Derek  { 5.28.02 @ 1:56pm }

» derek -

two major sources of crashes in ie5/mac are java and plugins. seriously - i'm not kidding - try turning off plugins and java in the preferences and run for a while and see if you still crash as often as you did before.

either way, feel free to report any/all complaints/suggestions re: ie/mac to the macie-talk email list.

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tantek  { 5.28.02 @ 8:39pm }

» Update: I think it was a font conflict. Lesson learned: when upgrading to OSX, don't just grab all your old fonts and copy them into the new system.

Derek  { 5.28.02 @ 9:24pm }

» Heh. In my brief stint with OS X, IE was the only app that wasn't giving me problems. But I still found it inferior to the 9 version, much like all the other apps I've gotten used to (I still love Eudora dearly!).

I guess I'm in the minority here, but OS X just bugged me... I felt like I was losing a lot more than just familiarity. Plus the piece of crap kept crashing (though that may just be hardware related, since OS 9 ain't so hot either right now).

Anyway, this is mostly useless babble, but in my short time there, Mail seemed to do a pretty good job, and my roommate is loving it... he endorses it over Entourage...

Dave  { 5.29.02 @ 12:17am }

» In any event, Derek, I highly, highly recommend Mozilla. I don't know if I can recommend it enough. It's not just a Netscape-y thing - it's a solid, complete browser with some nifty features - see

It's now my daily browser. It renders faster than IE in many cases, loads faster the majority of the time, and supports the web standards better. Flash support is fine for what I do, and I've never noticed massive problems. I'm happy without Windows Media Crap and RealPlayer Schtuff; although the former actually has an OS X player.

Come to Moz. It's calling you.

Paul  { 5.29.02 @ 5:27am }

» Derek, you might be interested in this Wired article: "Why Do New iMacs Surf So Slowly?" (,2125,51926,00.html).

I know you don't have an iMac, but as the article says, it's not the hardware but OS X that's the culprit.

Jeff  { 5.29.02 @ 7:00am }

» On the email front... moving to OSX was a major deal for me. I've been using Eudora for 7 years and I was heart and soul into it. I used the Eudora beta for a while but it sucked in a big big way. (It's come out of beta now but I believe it still sucks). So I spent about two weeks researching all the options. Entourage is out as I'm not spending a fortune on Office v.X when 2001 still works great (plus the way it handles/filters mail is dodgy). and Outlook etc are too simple for my needs. Eventually, after a trial period, much chatting with users, developers and serious hum-hah-ing I settled on BareBones' MailSmith. It's not perfect but it's damn clever and very powerful. Does pretty much everything you need and if it doesn't then it is so scriptable your brains will drop out your ear.

Might be worth a try... handled my 18,000 Eudora email archive without any problems. And it stores in seperate files making backup easier.

Jason Kitcat  { 6.3.02 @ 6:12am }


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